Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:49:36 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: NC, Davies Co, Christine Mock All This is Regina Roper's answer. In addition to Mocks in Davidson Co, NC, she would like to contact anyone researching the Davis or Hamilton surnames. According to the last message that was posted, she is searching for the parents of Christine Mock who married Hamilton Davis in Davies Co, NC. Her E-mail address is: afn02428@AFN.ORG <> _____________________________________________________ Thank you, Ron. If anyone is connected to Christina and Hamilton Davis, I can certainly share on the DAVIS line (with the exception of his father's lineage) re: his mother, the Hamilton family. Regina Roper ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:03:43 -0400 From: Steve Lapp Subject: Bourbon Co. KY - William MOCK 1789 taxable Has anybody figured out who William MOCK is, appearing on the list of Bourbon Co. KY taxpayers for 1789, alongside Daniel MOCK and Rudolph MOCK? This may be an undocumented son of Rudolph Mock Sr. (Rudolph the First, as opposed to Rudolph the Second who appears on the 1789 list, and his son Rudolph the Third.) Maybe I can find the answer when my wife Barbara and I visit Bourbon County next month. I spoke with a lady at the Chamber of Commerce there, who lives on Ruddels Mill Road (where Rudy lived). She says that there is a good genealogy library in Duncan's Tavern in Paris, KY. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:07:50 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: KY, Bourbon Co, William Mock Steve About the William Mock who appears in early Bourbon County tax records (1789), I had presumed he was the documented son of Rudolph Mock, (II) the one that was mentioned in his 1818 will, however, I see that in Barbara Ward's records, she had estimated his birth to be in 1788 which would not be compatible with finding him in the 1789 tax records. I have no idea how Barbara came up with that estimate for his birth, if this was just a guess or perhaps based on a census record somewhere. One of my research notebooks where I put in all of my raw data was lost, and this contained records I had located at Salt Lake City two years ago. I remember having located William Mauk in one of the later tax records of Rockingham County, VA, along with Daniel and Rudolph, and as I recall, it was 1785 or 1786. Since I lost my notebook, it appears this work will need to be repeated again. I had the Rockingham Mauks extracted from tax records from 1782-1787. JP Mock hopefully has also extracted these. Two years ago, when I was at Salt Lake City, I also located some early Court Records of Bourbon County, KY that mentioned, as I recall, this William Mock. He was involved in a law suit, I believe in 1787 and was the earliest Mock I had found record of in the Bourbon County, Kentucky Territory. Again, these are among my missing records. The other Mocks may have been there too, but he was the first one to turn up in the records. You could be right, this may be an older William Mock. I have never tried to search for the William Mock who was the son of Rudolph Mock. He survived Rudolph (II) when he died in 1818, and if he could be located in the 1820 US Census, maybe we could get a better age estimate. This may or may not be the William Mack that Barbara Ward located on p. 128 in the 1820 Census of Bourbon County, and I have never checked this to see what his age is. This may be where she obtained his age estimate. There was also a William Mock in Jefferson County, KY in the 1830 US Census on page 179, and again, this is another one I have never checked. This William Mock, the son of Rudolph, has been quite a mystery, I have never known if, or to whom he ever married and where he disappered to. My Daniel Mock had a son William Mock who could have been born close to the 1788 estimate of birth that Barbara Ward gives for William Mock, and I wonder if she may have found him and confused him with the son of Rudolph Mock (II)? He later lived in Perry County, Indiana after moving from Washington County, KY. I question if Rudolph (II) and Catherine Mock may have been too old to be having a son born in 1788, and wonder if his date of birth may have been much earlier. My estimate would be that Rudolph must have been 45-50 in 1788, and Catherine may have been some years younger, so I guess it is possible. I know of no record that documents that Catherine made it to Kentucky with the rest of the family in 1787. I don't know if anyone has looked at all of the Bourbon County, KY, Rudolph Mock deeds to see if her name appears anywhere. My best guess at this point would be that this William Mock was the son of Rudolph and Catherine Mock. I hope you can prove me wrong because this could be a clue to the true parentage of my Daniel Mock, and explain why he was not named in Rudolph Mock's will. I hope you come up with an answer when you are in Bourbon County, KY next month. <> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 03:49:06 -0700 From: Joan Hackett Subject: VA, Frederick Co., Mauck Ron: I have been puzzling over your recent message in which you cited the marriage of Michael Mauk & Barbara Heiser, as abstracted from the Balmain Journal by a contributor to _The Frederick Findings_. There are three primary sources which list this marriage. 1) In the Balmain Journal (which I've not seen) her name is Heiser. 2) Vogt & Kethley abstracted the Frederick Co marriage register, and list the 1784 bride of Frederick Mock as Barbara Cryser. Minister was Alexander Balmain. They list the 1788 bride of Michael Mauck as Barara Keiser. Minister was Alexander Balmain. The marriage register would be some clerk's recording of Balmain's minister returns when he submitted them to the county clerk's office. 3) I have abstracted the marriage bonds, which are a third primary source. Unfortunately, there are no surviving 1784 marriage bonds, so I can't provide any information about the marriage of Frederick Mock to Barbara. But the marriage bond dated 18 Oct 1788 survived. It lists Michael Mauck and Barbara Kuser, spinster. Bondsman, Mathias Mauck. Perhaps you should rethink the theory that Michael Mauck married Frederick Mauck's widow; it doesn't agree with any one of the three distinct marriage records for Michael & Barbara. Joan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:39:59 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: VA, Frederick Co, Barbara (Cryser/Kuser/Keiser/Heiser) Mauck Joan Thank you for your reply on the marriage of Frederick Mock/Mauk to Barbara Cryser 16 Aug 1784 and the marriage of Michael Mauck and Barbara Keiser/Heiser on 21 Oct 1788. Both marriages being in Frederick Co, VA, and the minister in both being Alexander Balmain. I have no problems accepting the names of Keiser and Heiser and even Kuser as being German variants of the same name, and wonder if Cryzer may be another variation. I know that we have discussed this before since you have family connections to Christopher Cryzer, the father of Barbara. It seems to me that the Cryzers and the Heisers/Keisers were two distinct families, but maybe they were branches of the same family that used different spellings. The question that I have raised is, why was Barbara's maiden name used at the time of her second marriage and not her married name of Mauck if she were indeed the widow of Frederick? You have now supplied additional evidence from the book that you and Rebecca Good published several years ago on Frederick County, VA, marriages, that strengthens this conflict and suggests that Barbara Keiser/Kuser was a spinster. You located this information from a marriage bond which is a primary source. Historians for years have presumed that both Barbaras were the same person and fortunately we do have some additional light on this issue that was located about two or three years ago by JP Mock. He turned up evidence, I believe it was in a deed or will of Michael Mauk that named Mary (Polly) Mauck as a daughter of his late wife Barbara. This would be evidence that she was NOT a spinster but had a prior marriage, and it would seem most likely to Frederick. We believe that Frederick and Barbara Mauck had only the one child, Polly, since he died within two or three years after they were married. Barbara was also found in other records after Frederick's death, as a widow and named as Barbara Mauck. This was before the marriage to Michael. This Polly Mauk later married William Bean Aug 1804 in Frederick County. We have at least one member who monitors this list who claims descent from this Polly Mauck and William Bean marriage, and I believe that is Nancy Boland. Correct me if I am wrong, Nancy. There is also some additional evidence that Barbara Cryser is the same as Barbara Keiser/Heiser/Kuser, and that is in Chalkey's Chronicles, vol II, page 156, there is an 1811 lawsuit of Keller vs Cryzer's heirs that names the children of Christian Cryzer who died 8 years before. (the name is also stated to be Christopher Cryzer in the same record) It names Babara Mauk, wife of Michael Mauk. I believe that a clerk or someone may have had their facts wrong at the time the primary records were generated on the Marriage of Michael Mauk to Barbara Keiser/Heiser/Kuser. I believe this illustrates that even primary records at times may not be accurate. I would like to hear JP's assessment on the facts in these two marriages. <> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:56:15 -0700 From: Joan Hackett Subject: VA, Frederick County, Mauk, Barbara Ron: A couple of additional comments on this interesting little problem about Barbara Cryser.. Balmain could have been mistaken, and given her maiden name both in his journal and in his report to the county clerk; he might not have known that she was, in fact, a widow. However, both Matthias and Michael were present at the signing of the marriage bond, and both signed their name. It would be they (or perhaps an interpreter if they spoke only German) who told the clerk that Barbara was a spinster and that her name was Barbara Kuser. The word "spinster" appears only occasionally in those early bonds. "Widow" appears in many bonds, but many of them give no designation at all as to the status of the bride-to-be. The 1804 marriage bond between William Bean and Polly Mauck, specifies that she was the daughter of Michael Mauck of Frederick [County], the bondsman. (Do I have the right Polly Mauck here?) Your other evidence about Barbara's daughter makes it pretty clear that Barbara was the widow of Frederick, and Polly was his daughter, but I find it interesting that all three marriage records list Barbara's maiden name, and Polly's marriage bond names Michael as her father. Joan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:26:06 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: VA; Frederick Co.; Barbara Cryser/Mauck Michael's Will was written 31 Dec 1829 and probated 03 May 1830 in Frederick Co., VA. In this will, Michael identifies Mary Bean, wife of William Bean, as a daughter of his late wife Barbara. All of his other children are identified as his "daughter" or his "son". Given that Mary (Polly) Bean's maiden name was Mauck, it would fit she was Frederick and Barbara's, given everything else. Frederick Jr's Estate Inventory was dated 19 June 1786 in Frederick Co., VA. Barbara Mauck was appointed the administrator 06 Jun 1786. Frederick appears in the personal property tax lists of Frederick Co., VA only in 1784. In the 1787 and 1788 lists there is a "Widow Mauck". She no longer appears in the tax list after Barbara's marriage to Michael. I'm pretty comfortable alleging that Barbara married Michael after Frederick's death. But I don't have proof positive. I also saw the record that indicated Mary Bean was the daughter of Michael and Barbara. I don't know that the term "stepfather" was used back then, but suspect in any case that since her father died so young, she really thought of Michael as daddy. Others have done more Cryzer work than I, but dusting out the cobwebs between my ears, it seems to me Christopher's last name was frequently mis-spelled in a number of deeds I looked at. The other thought I have, is the reason Alexander Balmain performed both of Barbara's marriages (1784 and 1788). Balmain was Rector of Frederick Parish in Winchester. As I recall, these two marriages were the only Mauck/Mauk/Mock marriages performed by Balmain. I seem to remember something about the marriages, for a short period of time (1780's), were not accepted as legitimate unless performed by a Rector of the State Church. Perhaps Christopher was of this religion, but I wouldn't think German speaking people normally were happy about getting married by the Rector, nor perhaps that the Rector's German translation was that great. Just a thought from somebody who has not once set foot in the Shenandoah Valley. Sorry I haven't been able to jump in here much lately. I AM preparing for Mt. Jackson, in a big way. Hope this helps a little bit. JP ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:26:11 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: VA; Augusta Co.; Rudolph Mauck Sr Snuck a few hours at the library the other day. I searched ALL of the probate records for Augusta Co. in Will Books 1 and 2 (1738-1754) looking for Maucks or the spelling variations, record by record. The only 3 records I found I'd already seen. ----------------------------------------------------------- Augusta Co. Will Book 1 p.12 Inventory of the personal property of Abraham Strickler dec'd dated 21 Apr 1746. Inventory performed by Paul Long, Rudolph Maag and _______. ---------------------------------------------------------- Augusta Co. Will Book 1 p.267 Paul Long, Frederick Frailey and Peter Scholl appointed Administrator's for Rudy Mauk dec'd to perform an inventory of his Goods, Chattels and Credits. Dated 27 Nov 1750 --------------------------------------------------------- Augusta Co. Will Book 1 p.346 Inventory of the personal property of Rude Mark dated 7 Mar 1750. Inventory performed by Mathias Selser, Daniel Stover, Jacob Burnet. Recorded May 1751. --------------------------------------------------------- I photocopied the last two, if anyone wants copies. I'd like somebody to give a shot at interpreting Rudolph's inventory. It's VERY clear, but I don't recognize the words, perhaps it's a mix of German and English, or it's just the script writing of the time and my eyes. The reason I searched them all is neither of the above records for Rudolph were indexed in his name. They were both in Paul Long's name in the index. I noticed a number of probates where guardians were appointed for minor children, it was very common. I did not find one for Rudolph's kids (of course), but I wonder if this means his kids were all no longer minors by the time of his death in 1750. I think we need to search each and every record for the deeds during this time, and then go to Orange Co. and do the same from 1734 through 1738, when Augusta Co. was formed. I also think we need to go back and search Spotsylvania Co. from 1730 through 1734, when Orange Co. was formed from it. Wouldn't suprise me if we found the original purchase of land on that North Mountain Tract by Peter Mauck in those records. I'd like to also search Frederick Co. from 1754 through 1760 or so, checking Paul Long's name in the index first. I HAVE to believe there's something more hiding there. I don't think we ever did find the division of Rudolph's land, only the survey in 1755 that showed his wife Mildred. I also think we should do this with Culpeper Co. through 1776. The first land transaction involving Daniel was actually in Culpeper Co. in 1762. I'm about ready to stop researching descendants of all these Maucks, and go after more early records. I don't have all the descendant's, but I've got a fair amount and my interest is more pre-1800 now versus later, unless it's specifically my Joseph Mauck (b. abt 1822 VA) line. JP ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:16:59 -0700 From: Joan Hackett Subject: VA, Frederick County, Barbara Criser/Mauck JP raises a good question -- why were Frederick & Michael Mauck married to Barbara Cryser by Balmain, Rector of the Parish? Barbara Kreiser, born 30 May 1761, daughter of Christopher "and wife," was baptized May 25, 1770, at parents' home. Her two sisters and her brother were also baptized on the same day. These records are a part of the Christ Evangelical Lutheran Church, York, PA. I assume that Christopher had not moved to VA, but was still living in PA at the time. Barbara's brother, Jacob Cryser, was married by William Williamson, a Presbyterian minister whose church was in Front Royal. It would be interesting to unearth marriage records for the other two siblings -- Catharine and Anna Kreiser. All I can conclude from this is that the Cryzer family was flexible in its religious connections. Joan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:58:10 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: Re: VA; Augusta Co.; Rudolph Mauck Sr JP I have a copy of the Estate Inventory of Rudy Mauck that was translated and copied a number of years ago by Evelyn Staats Carothers of Terra Bella, CA. She typed it up and did a beautiful job. She told me she worked a long time at it. In it, she was intrigued with some books that he had which were in German and I can't recall exactly what they were, but it seems like it may have been a prayer book and not a Bible. She then searched the Estate Inventory of the Rudolph Mock who died in Bourbon County, KY in 1818 and found some similar books in German. She used that as minor indirect evidence that the latter Rudolph was the son of the older Rudolph. Since then we have found some direct evidence linking the two. I will be happy to send you a copy of the older Rudolph Mauck's Estate Inventory that has already been translated by Mrs Carothers. I believe you are right, that somewhere in one of those counties is a record hidden that may help unlock the unsolved mystery of Rudolph Mauck's origin. The problem lies in the indexing. Another thing is that we have relied heavily in the past on Chalkey's Chronicles for records of Augusta County, VA, but some of us have questioned how complete they really are. Although many Germans are mentioned in the records, the exact title of the book is "Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia, Extracted from the Original Court Records of Augusta County, 1745-1800." I have no proof that he excluded some German records, but have heard this stated from other sources. Lyman Chalkey was a Judge in Augusta County for many years. I believe his books were later published by the DAR in 1912. We do have the exact date of birth of at least one of Rudolph Mauck's children, and that is his daughter Elizabetha who was born 1 Nov 1735, according to the records of Rev John Casper Stoever. It is unknown if the other siblings came before or after her. I believe we have estimated the date of birth of Rudolph Mauck (II) to have been in about 1740. Elizabeth would have been 14 or 15 when her father died in 1750, so she definitely would have been a minor. My personal belief is the reason that Paul Long was appointed as Administrator of the Estate and not one of the children, was that the kids were all too young to serve in this capacity. There definitely seems to be some missing records here. I have often wondered how Rudolph Mauck (II) acquired the land of his father which he sold in 1754 to Christian Maggot and Lewis Pentz. We have never located a Court record showing this transfer from Rudolph Mauck (I) to Rudolph Mauck (II). One theory that I had a number of years ago, was the land grant of 1749 did not say Rudolph Sr or Jr, and I wondered if maybe Rudolph Mauck (II) was born earlier than had been previously estimated and he may have been the one that obtained the grant and not Rudolph Mauck (I). This theory was supported by finding a court record when the property was later sold by Christina Maggot that seemed to indicate that Rudolph Mauck (II) was the one who had obtained the original land grant. I believe that later, the record that was first brought to our attention by Wanda Cunningham in the document she discovered in connection with this same property, where Rudolph Mauck (II) was shown to be a son of Rudolph Mauck (I) and Rudolph Mauck (I)'s wife was named as Mildred, pretty much dispelled that theory. I believe it is likely that Rudolph Mauck (I) died Intestate. If that is the case, wouldn't his Estate have automatically gone to his eldest son according to the law of primogeniture? This is the reason I have felt that other sons and daughters of Rudolph Mauck (I) may have been excluded. Daniel and Henry appear to have acquired property in the same vicinity later through either a land grant or deed and this definitely did not appear to be part of the original Rudolph Mauck 1849 land grant that was later sold to Christian Maggot and the other piece to Lewis Pentz. You are right about the first deed that was found for Daniel Mauck was in Culpeper County, in 1761 when he purchased property from Richard and Elizabeth Nalle but this deed named him as a resident of Frederick County. I believe he then sold the same property to John Gent in 1761 and no wife was named on the grantor deed, so it is presumed this was before his first marriage to Barbara Harnsberger of Culpeper County. You are certainly correct that there are still many areas to search for early records. While in Virginia in October, I hope to spend at least a day in Staunton in Augusta County and maybe two days in Harrisonburg in Rockingham County. I doubt there will be time to get to Orange County or Spotsylvania County, but you are right, there may be earlier records hidden there too. <> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:29:52 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: Re: VA; Augusta Co.; Rudolph Mauck Sr JP I have again looked at the evidence about the probable date of birth of Rudolph Mauck (II) where I stated to to be about 1740, but believe it may have been earlier than this since he was involved in the court transaction of 1754 and when he sold the property. If born in 1740, he would have only been about 14 in 1754, so I believe he must have been born at least 4-5 years earlier than that. My best estimate would be ca. 1736. If we use the 1736 date, he would have been 82 when he died in Bourbon County, KY in 1818. I hope that Steve Lapp locates his grave when he goes there next month, but this seems doubtful since a lot of people in the past have no doubt searched for it and have not found it. <> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:29:53 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: Re: VA, Frederick County, Barbara Criser/Mauck Joan, THANK YOU. I didn't have those dates of birth and baptismal information for Barbara. Maybe I did have it and it just got lost in all my notes. But thank you, it's input now. Maybe Ron can add something to this, but I seem to have had a discussion with someone before, or read somewhere, that for a short number of years in the 1780's that the law required that in order for a marriage to be legally valid it had to beperformed in the Presbyterian Church, other marriages by other faiths during that time were not considered legally valid. I also recall something about his law being changed real quick, as it alienated a lot of other faiths, like specifically the German Lutherans and Reformed churches. Does any of this sound familiar? JP ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:59:20 -0700 From: Joan Hackett Subject: VA, Frederick County JP: It wasn't the Presbyterian Church; it was the Episcopal Church that was the established church in Virginia. Balmain was an Episcopalian minister whose church was in Winchester. According to Cartmell (p. 165) prior to 1776 those in high authority claimed the right to control all the Parishes of the Established Church as well as all "dissenters, those calling themselves Presbyterians, Baptists, and any other Protestants." Cartmell (p 190) says that there was an organized German Lutheran Congregation in 1762 at Winchester. Peter Muhlenburg had the advantage of being the son of a Lutheran and yet was ordained in the Episcopal Church. He served at Woodstock, and according to Cartmell, was able to serve well those in the church who had been Lutheran. According to Cartmell, Christian Streit, who was a Lutheran minister, settled in Winchester in July 1785. Streit performed many marriage ceremonies; an Act of the General Assembly provided for a lottery in 1788 so Streit could build his church. In a quick search of Vogt & Kethley's abstracts of Frederick Co marriages, I see Christian Streit was performing marriages by 1785; these marriages were recorded in the Frederick Co., VA, marriage register, so were approved by the governmental authorities. Reading between the lines of the above, it looks to me as if the Revolutionary War was the turning point; before the war only the Episcopal church was recognized by the state authorities. Certainly, by 1785, when Streit was performing marriages, Lutheran marriage ceremonies were acknowledged by the civil authorities. I'll do some more research on this. Joan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:05:59 -0400 From: Sam Spectre Subject: MACKs near Harrisburg, PA I have discovered more since my last post to this ListServ so I've decided to post again. I am looking for any information dealing with the following people/family: Peter S. Mack married Eliza Rambeau. They had at least one child, Luther Rambo Mack, who was born 2 Apr 1874 in Harrisburg, PA. (I'm going to the Nat'l Archives this Friday to look for this fam.) Luther Rambo Mack married Annie E. Devenny, dau. of Pierce Hall Devenny and Sarah Weaver (Weaves ?). They had at least one child: Florence May Mack, b. 25 Jan 1898 (Beaver Co., PA), d. 19 Aug 1969 (O'Donnell Heights, MD). More information (not MUCH more) can be found at my website: http://www.access.digex.net/~spectre/mack.html Thanks for ANY help ANYONE might be able to offer! - Dennis V. Stanley spectre@access.digex.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:52:17 -0700 From: Ron Pyle Subject: Re: MACKs near Harrisburg, PA ---------- From: Sam Spectre[SMTP:spectre@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET] Sent: Monday, September 16, 1996 7:05 AM To: MOCK-GEN-L@home.dc.LSOFT.COM Subject: MACKs near Harrisburg, PA Sam; If you go to the Nat. archives this week, please check into the Richard Mack family from Conn., Ohio, and Vermillion County, IN. Richard Mack was married to Betty Harvey and was a Revolutionary War Veteran. I have a lot of information on this part of the Mack family. Thank you. Ron Pyle, Angels Camp, Ca. piguy@goldrush.com I have discovered more since my last post to this ListServ so I've decided to post again. I am looking for any information dealing with the following people/family: Peter S. Mack married Eliza Rambeau. They had at least one child, Luther Rambo Mack, who was born 2 Apr 1874 in Harrisburg, PA. (I'm going to the Nat'l Archives this Friday to look for this fam.) Luther Rambo Mack married Annie E. Devenny, dau. of Pierce Hall Devenny and Sarah Weaver (Weaves ?). They had at least one child: Florence May Mack, b. 25 Jan 1898 (Beaver Co., PA), d. 19 Aug 1969 (O'Donnell Heights, MD). More information (not MUCH more) can be found at my website: http://www.access.digex.net/~spectre/mack.html Thanks for ANY help ANYONE might be able to offer! - Dennis V. Stanley spectre@access.digex.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:52:30 -0400 From: WCunnin326@AOL.COM Subject: Re: VA; Augusta Co.; Rudolph Mauck Sr JP I definitely would like to have a copy of those papers on Rudolphs probate, inventory, etc., please! That's an excellent work plan you have made for research into those deeds. Hope I can get some of it done [in my lifetime]. I'm sure there are some answers to be found in them. Wanda ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:52:35 -0400 From: WCunnin326@AOL.COM Subject: Re: VA; Augusta Co.; Rudolph Mauck Sr Ron, Would you please run off a copy of that translation of Rudi Mauck's inventory for me, too? I would love to have it to compare against the untranslated version. Wanda ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:52:39 -0400 From: WCunnin326@AOL.COM Subject: Re: VA, Frederick County, Barbara Criser/Mauck JP, I have read similar information about the jurisdiction over marriages in colonial times, but I believe it was the Church of England (Episcopal) that controlled it, at least until after the Revolutionary War. The marriages would have been in the Parish of a specific area. One example, I believe, would be in Culpeper Co: St. Mark's Parish and then Bromfield Parish which was formed from St. Mark's. Correct me if I am mistaken about this. Wanda ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:19:55 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: Re: VA; Augusta Co.; Rudolph Mauck Sr They'll be going our in today's mail.... JP ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:19:59 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: Re: VA, Frederick County Thanks for setting me straight on the Churches and marriage records, Joan. I knew it was something like that, but my memory fails me. I think the question also is: Why did Balmain perform the marriages for these Maucks? JP ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:30:59 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: VA; Culpeper Co.; Mauck/Berry Reference: Shenandoah Co. Marriages 16 Aug 1800 Elizabeth Mauk to Joel Berry bondsman Godlove Mauk 08 Jun 1806 Nancy Mauk to Elijah Berry bondsman George Mauk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ I think I may have located Elijah's father, maybe? Culpeper Co., VA Will Book B p.461 dated 7 Sep 1781 Will of Elijah Berry dec'd identifies wife as Ann. Does indicate he had children, and instead leaves parts of his estate to other Berry's. These are: Leonard son of Malachi Berry for 2 years of school, and ELIJAH SON OF AARON BERRY for 2 years of school. It identifies one brother, Acrey Berry. Ron, have you seen this younger Elijah son of Aaron Berry? Seems his age might be close to the guy who married Nancy Mauk. Comments? JP ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:25:15 -0700 From: "James P. Mock" Subject: VA; Culpeper Co.; Mauk/Berry This is a follow-up to the last Berry message I posted about the will of Elijah Berry leaving money for schooling of Elijah Berry, son of Aaron Berry. The Culpeper Co., VA will of John Berry dated 14 May 1779 and proved 19 Jul 1779 identifies John's sons as Acary, Elijah, Elisha, Aaron, Malichiah, and John. His daughters as Ann Whiten, Jeriah Yeager, Jerusha Stinnet and Betty Sutton dec'd. John's wife is identified as Jemima. This would make John and Jemima Berry the parents of Elijah whose Culpeper Co. will left money to what appears to be his nephew, Elijah Berry, son of Aaron Berry. Ron, are all of these Berry's in the Berry Family book you have? Does it account for this son of Aaron Berry named Elijah? Thanks... JP ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:49:50 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: Re: VA; Culpeper Co.; Mauck/Berry JP I don't believe the Elijah Berry who was the son of Aaron Berry was the one who married Nancy Mauk, 8 Jun 1806 with bondman George Mauk. You and I have been studying this family for a long time and also the other marriage of Joel Berry to Elizabeth Mauk, 16 Aug 1800 with bondsman Godlove Mauk. Both of these marriages took place in Shenandoah County, VA. According to the book, Berry-Beerey, The Family of Elijah Berry, VA, GA, AL, TX, 1700-1980 by Lynn Berry Hamilton, she claims him as the one who went to Elbert County, Georgia by 1810 and who married 8 Feb 1811 to Sarah Rich, daughter of John and Mary Rich who were early residents of Elbert County, GA by 1796. She states that her Elijah was born in 1778 and quotes circumstantial evidence why she believe that is her Elijah. She also quotes the will of the older Elijah Berry that you refer to which names this Elijah Berry as a son of Aaron Berry. Aaron was a brother of the older Elijah Berry and both thought to be sons of John and Jemimah Berry of Culpeper County, VA. I have always presumed that Elijah and Joel Berry who were in Shenandoah County, VA and who married the Mauk girls, were sons of Malachi Berry, since he was known to be in Rockingham County, VA in the tax list by 1787. In this list was also a Thomas Berry, a Garrett Berry and an Abraham Beery. Mrs Hamilton in her book, quotes reasons why she believes that Malachi Berry did not have a son by the name of Elijah, because if he did, and would have been born before 1781, he would have been the one named in the Will of the older Elijah Berry who died in 1781 in place of Leonard. I am not sure I follow her reasoning on this, but she may be right. I don't believe the Acrey Berry who was noted to be the brother of Elijah Berry who died in 1781 was the same Achory Berry who was in Shenandoah County, VA and who on 12 Sep 1809 was involved in a deed transaction involving Mary Hanback, relic of John Hanback late of Champaign County, Ohio. Achory's wife was stated to be Susannah (Hanback). The Hanbacks, I believe, were earlier residents of Culper or Madison County, VA. I have studed over this Achory Berry numerous times, trying to tie him to Elijah or Joel as a possible father or brother but so far have not been successful. One interesting side light on this Elijah Berry who died and left a will in 1781, was that his wife was Ann Hurt, daughter of James and Sarah Hurt. Sarah had a sister by the name of Mary Hurt who was married to Acrey Berry. Both Acrey and Elijah were thought to be sons of John and Jemima Berry. Anna Hurt also had a brother by the name of James Hurt who married Jemima Gaines. Both James Hurt and Elijah Berry had wills probated on the same date in 1781. The writer postulated that maybe there may have been a misfortune falling on these two men toward the end of the Revolutionary War and perhaps they may have been killed at the same time. Aaron Berry, another son of John and Jemima Berry, was married before 18 June 1778 to Lucey Samson, daughter of John and Mary Sampson. Lucey was a sister to Franky Sampson who had married Elisha Berry, another son of John and Jemima Berry. John died 1814-1815. Malachiah was married to Elizabeth, probable daughter of John and Elizabeth Simpson. Mrs Hamilton gives references for the probable sons of Malachiah and Elizabeth Berry and they include Malachiah, Jr, Leonard, Simpson, Ephriam and Joseph. I am almost certain that the Elijah Berry who died in 1781 was the one who purchased land from Mathias Mauk, some time before he went to Georgia. There are a couple of other Elijah Berrys we need to identify. One is the Elijah Berry found with the early Illinois land records. I am almost certain that I ran across an Elijah Berry in Bourbon County, KY, but I wouldn't swear to it. There was also the Godlove Mock that Helene Hawkins discovered in Illinois land reords who had lived in Fairfield County, Ohio. I believe, as you know, there is also evidence that Elijah and Nancy (Mauk) Berry moved from Shenandoah County, VA to Fairfield County, Ohio. I believe your theory about the origin of these Mauks to be a good one, and that they may have been daughters of Mathias and Barbary Mauk who did not go to Georgia with them and who have not yet been identified. In fact it seems almost certain that these Berry boys, Elijah and Joel were descended from Culpeper County, VA Berry families. I wish we could find more solid proof for this hypothesis. The evidence that ties the Elijah Berry who died in 1781 to the Elijah Berry who later went to Georgia, to me sounds weak, and I believe you could be right, that this Elijah could be the one who married Nancy Mauk. What makes you believe that this Elijah Berry who died in 1781 and left a will naming a brother and some nephews, may have had children of his own? <> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:15:44 GMT From: Ron Moore Subject: VA, Shenandoah Co, Godlove Mauk JP I was thinking over in more detail about your theory that Nancy and Elizabeth Mauk may have been daughters of Mathias and Barbary Mauk, and I believe I misspoke on this and should have said that you believe that Godlove Mauk, the bondsman in the marriage of Elizabeth Mauk to Joel Berry, may have been a son of Mathias and Barbary Mauk of Culpeper County, VA and Wilkes County, GA. Then according to your theory, Nancy and Elizabeth may have been daughters of Godlove Mauk who was first in Shenandoah County, VA, I believe in the tax records, by the late 1780's or was it the early 1790's. Anyway, I believe this would make more sense and seem to fit the facts better. He could have been an older son of Mathias and Barbary who never went to Georgia. Although I support your theory, I hope that people will not put this down as fact, since this is still only a working hypothesis with no proof and little circumstantial evidence. <> =========================================================================